Show Participation: Help Answer a Reader's Questions
Here's an excerpt from a Horse&Rider reader email I received over the weekend. I would love to know how you would answer the reader's questions, based on your knowledge of and experiences in your area.
(If you don't show, perhaps you'd be willing to articulate your reasons. Ditto if you used to show, but don't do so any longer.)
"...I have been meaning to write to H&R for quite some time, regarding the issue of showing and the general lack of interest we seem to be experiencing in our state. Numbers seem to have diminished significantly for all the breed clubs over the years. The days of Quarter Horse shows that boasted 600 entries for a weekend show seem a thing of the past. Is it different in other parts of the country? Better? Worse?"
Love to hear from you on this one.
Thanks to Alana Harrison of H&R for the photo.
posted by Juli Thorson @ 9:24 PM
34 comments
34 Comments:
I don't show but I do compete in timed events (ie barrel racing, pole bending, team sorting).
My reason is simple - I want my horse & I to be placed as fairly as possible therefore we compete against a clock.
No matter what checks and measures are in place to make things "fair" and "even" when an event is judged by people there is a bias.
I, personally, will never believe that person A would be placed higher than person B, even if they DID perform better, if person B (or sometimes their horse) is more well known or respected.
Oh, and here's a kicker (not the reason but definitely one to consider) I was once taking 'brush up' lessons with a coach to get back some confidence and work through some issues with a gelding I had. The subject of showing came up, he was a nice gelding, and she offered to ride him in a local open show. Reason? Because I myself am 'too fat to show'. :o
I would say e c o n o m y at some of the breed shows classes are $50 or more each! It gets pretty expensive! I know there is an all day fee too, sometimes, but they want you to pay for the points.
LOL I left out all the clothes and tack and saddleblankets and halters and trucks and trailers and gas and you get the picture
e c o n o m y
Ok first, I am APPALLED at cdncowgirls last part. Someone actually told you that? Did you smack them senseless? Perhaps they haven't heard of Lee Smith who gives clinics at the Scottsdale Arabian Show, and hosts Ray Hunt every year at her ranch. She's a big girl, but there is NOTHING she can't do. An amazing horsewoman.
I'm just amazed anyone would ever say that.
And for the main question, where are the people who used to show? Economy mostly is my guess. That and people are just tired of it. I know I'm exhausted at the end of a show day and it's usually on the only day off I have. A lot of times I just don't want to go.
I show in schooling shows in Scottsdale and I do gymkhanas for fun.
I'll tell you my last gymkhana, I was not happy. The "judge" showed up at a kids gymkhana with a horse that kicks, red ribbon in it's tail and parked this horse in the midst of where kids ride and run around. It was completely a hazard. And not to sound like every other parent, but she no timed my kid, and I couldn't figure out where my child went wrong. Then on top of that, she yelled at the gate guy who let me in the arena while another rider was doing a pattern, after a staff member told him to do this. Then the judge turns around, and when it was her turn to ride (yes, she rode too) she asked to be let in the arena and the gate guy wouldn't let her. She said "Well you can let ME in" and he said NO, sorry, and she was NOT happy.
People were bitchy all around. Don't know if I'm going back...
stuff like that, you get frustrated. Why even bother going? You'll have a better time taking a trail ride with your friends.
Mikey - yes truly, those were her exact words. I was like "WTF?" but she was a good coach and those are hard to find. Although I am currently looking for a new one.
I do not show because I'm a middle-aged novice with two mutts for horses. Everything I'm reading from folks on the blogs and forums says it's the money, plain and simple.
Forgot to ask -- is that you in the pic?
I've never had the money to buy a nice enough horse to do breed shows. I showed 4-H as a kid and it was ok in the small town environmnent - everyone had used clothes and no one had a fancy show saddle, so we were all on an equal playing field.
I think part of showing is bias - there will always be that. Showing is expensive if you don't own your own trailer. It can cost upwards of $200 a day to have your horse trailered locally - within an hour of "home" We also need to be members of our provincial equestrian federation (for insurance) plus you need to be a member of whatever association you want to show in - hunter/jumper ass'n, the dressage ass'n or your breed club locally and the big AQHA/APHA membership. That all adds up pretty quickly, (I'm in Canada) and we haven't even considered show fees. The fees for open schooling shows aren't too bad, but the the big name shows are quite expensive.
Sorry for the long comment!
That doesn't even get into show tack and clothes.
And Cdn - sorry to hear that you were told you were too fat - that is just not ok.
Leah: I'm ultra flattered, but no, that is not me in the picture. That rider is easily 30 years younger than I am.
Cdn: So sorry someone told you that. She must have been drinking one too many George Morris cocktails.
This is interesting. I am about to show this year after a 15 year hiatus. I am going to a local club show, which is run so that your yearly membership pays for all your entries at 4 shows and some trail rides too. I am just going for fun.
Let me tell you what put me off showing for so long and maybe it applies to why more are staying away now.
As said before, the cost of memberships before you show is silly. The quality of judging is low. I have seen horses that are on the wrong lead place, as well as horses that have their heads too low and are 4-beating the lope place. There is bias towards certain trainers and their students. Yes, skinny riders were placed higher than their bigger counterparts, regardless of skill. I have been heard to say more than once "why I am paying for this judges opinion?". I switched from breed shows to 3-day eventing, where the bias is diminished and placings are based on penalties and the clock. The expense and danger eventually stopped me from that as well.
When things become expensive and the fun evapourates, there is no reason for many people to continue showing.
Karla
I have competed previously at breed shows in Alberta. Lots of bias towards well known trainers and their horses. In a weanling halter class I actually had the wife of the winner (a trainer) come up to me (an unknown amateur) and tell me that my horse should have won.
Most of the breed shows only do halter and western pleasure so there are no real performance classes. I started showing english and moved into three day eventing.
I looked at doing a big regional show in the hunter jumper since my husband was showing reining there. It would have cost me over $200 to do 1 hunter class of 8 fences (entry fees and stabling) or for the same I could compete at an event and do a dressage test, jump a stadium course of 12 fences and do a cross country course of 20 fences.
Much more fun and a lot more friendly.
Nancy!
We raised our daughter showing her TW horse, at first, at the local shows and 4-H (which was very strong at that time), then later at the TW shows. It was a great way to bring up a child. She was blessed to have a great horse that placed well. There were no trainers in the local shows for the TW entries. Once, she started attending the TW shows, we quickly learned that the trainers would place first, second, etc. The judges were usually trainers and knew the next week they would be judged by another trainer. So, if she got a third, everyone else, besides the trainers, considered that first. I thought I might show in a few local shows last year. I went to a couple of shows without my horse to just see what was going on. Western pleasure is what my horse is trained in. The trainers’ horses just looked broken down. I know my horse can move like that but since I have owned him he moves freely without the depressing look. I will never ask him to move like that. I will just continue to trail ride, no stress on me or my horse.
There are a lot of reasons I'm not too serious about showing. Although I've been to a few. My horses are mustangs, so there are very few breed shows. Also, the age restrictions for most open shows don't make much sense for mustangs, since they're not at the same level of training at age two as a domestic horse. Mine were running wild at age two. So I've had to pay to enter classes I knew I wouldn't be allowed to place in. And I once paid for a trail class and they made me wait hours for my turn since I couldn't be scored, (I wanted to do in-hand with a horse that was too old for the class) and I finally ended up leaving. That made me pretty mad. I could understand if they said I couldn't do the class, but to take my money and then not allow us our turn...
Another big hurdle for me is that I didn't grow up with horses, don't know what's expected at shows, and when you hear how snobbish people are and how strange some of the rules are for someone who hasn't done it, it's intimidating.
I do think it's important for a well-rounded horse to get out into some show situations, so I'll keep doing it on a small scale. No way I could enter a $50 class though! I very much enjoyed the Mustang Days show in Spokane, so that will be a yearly event for us now. Everyone was friendly, the tack and dress wasn't as flashy, and people were supportive of each other.
I have been a devout 'showgirl' since the age of 5 and loved every minute of it. However, I have not shown the past three years because most breed shows are 3 hours from home and when I get there I am competing against 4 amatuers. The cost of maybe getting that 1 point per class is outrageous.
I switched to trail riding\camping with friends and family and I have been having a blast. I come home from a long weekend feeling refreshed instead of frustrated and exhausted and I can't wait to go out again the next weekend.
I knew it was time to stop showing when I was trying to come up with excuses to NOT go.
I do also want to comment that my sister, who showed her gelding to three APHA championship awards, when she was 'thin', won't show anymore because she is 'too heavy'. I would do shows to be with her, if she would go, but I can't get her to.
Whether or not people want to admit it, the judges and other competitors look down their noses at heavier riders. It isn't any different in the show pen as it is out in the everyday world; unfortunately.
I would think that money is a huge factor in recent years. Fuel prices etc.
But, for me personally, I don't like pleasure shows...it's just boring. I don't like how the "winning" horses move...it's un-natural...and the "must have the right trainer" to place is ridiculous. Then on top of that is the cost of having the right tack...saddles drenched in silver. It's just not my thing and has never been.
In our very rural area, we have a saddle club that does pleasure shows. It's VERY low key...if you wore show clothes, you'd look out of place.
We have a cutting club and a barrel club...these too are very low key, fun, and family oriented.
We are starting a stock horse club this year. Most everyone around here has ranches and farms. So reined stock horse competition is very big...I'm hooked on it! But, again, it's low key and fun.
Same here in Washington,
I share the same opinion as alot of the others.
Economy not only that but in regards to QH show numbers - for many years now they have put alot of distance between themselves and Open shows. You almost have to be unemployed and independently rich to show a full circuit anymore. 4 day circuit seem so popular with show management and trainers - but not so much I think with working exhibitors. People who leave the QH show in favor of other types of shows don't come back.
I ride in reined cowhorse events and reining (sometimes)
The winning horses are extremely high priced and extensively trained with top trainers. I am not for a second saying I have a problem with this, but I see a class separation.
Lower priced horses belonging to everyday folks who may take lessons, pay for a little training and buy used equipment rarely make it to the top.
It simply takes too much money to succeed at the upper levels of AQHA, NRCHA, NRHA and NCHA events.Even the AQHA day shows can be daunting and there doesn't seem to be a steady supply of those available.
I'm taking a breather and competing with a local cutting club for a year.
The competition is pretty good and I can almost afford to show.I know many others feel the same way.
From this blog's archives, December 2006, regarding attendance trends at breed shows:
The Dinosaurs In Our Midst
Most of us think of evolution as a process that allows survival of species. But when it comes to the evolution of breed shows, that may not be the case. I see some strong indicators that bring dinosaurs to mind. And we all know what happened to them. The only thing left of those creatures that once ruled the earth are their fossilized remains.
Why do I say this? Well, for one thing, breed shows are suffering from a decreased-attendance trend that's been going on for a while now. Some have disappeared altogether as their food supply--willing participants--dropped below their production/staffing costs.
For another, their multi-day formats are increasingly incompatible with the demands on today's time-challenged families. In an earlier age, the typical breed show took place on Saturday/Sunday weekends. Now, though, it's common for them to run for three or four days--fine if you're self-employed, retired, or independently wealthy, but not so fine if you're a wage earner or a student who's expected to show up in class five days a week.
And then there's the matter of the necessary cash outlay. As attendance edges downward, fees keep creeping up in order to make up the difference. If you're among those still playing the breed-show game, you know what I'm talking about here--higher entry fees, higher stall fees, plus trainer fees, drug-test fees, office fees, points-keeping fees, RV fees, even parking fees for the privilege of keeping your trailer on the grounds and pet fees for bringing your dog. This isn't to mention the escalating cost of what it takes to live up to the contemporary standards of tack, attire, and other equipment.
All told, it's no surprise to me that single-day, unrated local open shows are enjoying a renaissance and a growth pattern in many areas of the country. In some locales, including mine, it's not uncommon for a breed club to sponsor an open show or series of them as a way to boost funding of its annual high-overhead breed event. Besides being cheaper for the club to produce, the one-day show is more doable for the show enthusiast who isn't prepared to take days off work, hire help to take care of the farm while gone, and write a three-figure check to a multi-day breed circuit's sponsoring organization--all for the privilege of earning those intangible rewards known as breed points.
I've been a breed-show participant (not just in one breed, but several) for nearly 50 years, so it's not like I'm just a disgruntled can't-join-'em outside observer. I've been in the thick of the breed-show realm most of my life, having shown in my first breed-show class before I was old enough to go to school. But I'm afraid I do have to wonder how much farther breed shows can stand to evolve in terms of time and financial outlay before they become Breedshowus Disappearus.
posted by Juli Thorson @ 11:05 AM
I do show and so does my grown daughter- we Show in a local club show- CAQHEA and also AQHA. It is an open show series. Many times the W/J Pleasure and the Pleasure will have over thirty horses in the class. Same with the Trail classes. The show goes for three days and there are well over 600 horses in attendance. I live between Sacramento and San Francisco-, and most of the shows are up and down the Central Valley, a lot of my friends also travel to Upper Ca and Oregon, as well as Nevada and Arizona.
It seems to me the smaller non breed shows and the training shows are the ones that are not doing very well. I have heard it said that the money is the same to GET there, you might as well be rewarded with the points for the effort and time.
And PS cdncowgirl- I am NOT thin- and I am old- and I still placed 5th in my class last year- and I don't have a trainer. Lil Mama and I do it all by ourselves!
Yes, All those factors and add boredom.
You see the same pile of silver and glitter on the same over trained horses ridden by the same people who just can’t get enough.
I know of one group of shows that retires a horse from competition in a class when that horse has won 3 times. Great idea.
I know of a place where horses in rail events are ridden and the rider judged then everyone in the class switches horses via lottery and rides again and the horses are judged, Hmmmm….
How about uniforms for the human participants? All that bling is pretty distracting when you are trying to see if the horse is doing a true 3 beat canter, or if the rider has busy legs.
How about restricting the silver allowed on a saddle? Let them spend their money on a quality saddle rather than a cheep saddle with a ton of silver. I have heard certain western rail classes called the ‘walk trot silver competition’.
How abut showing WP class under ASHA rules? That will get their heads up!
How about finding a creative way to give horse shows a shot of artistic appreciation by having more varied freestyle classes?
How about some shows where the horses compete in hand and under saddle in some Parelli like events? You know no whips spurs tiedowns and a cable tie in the lead rope.
That would separate the horse owners from the horsemen.
How about making it illegal for judges to show and trainers to judge?
How about a jumping class with tiedowns not allowed?
How about a class for riders of green horses (90 days under saddle or less) amateur owner to ride? Let’s see if they can go forward, back up, move right left and turn on the haunches as well as the forehand. No professionally trained horses!
How about some variety? This is why team penning took off but now that is old. The Cowboy race is a good example. The Extreme Mustang make over is another.
Make a place for the pro to compete with the pro. Make a place for amateur hard work and progress to shine.
I show at the regional ApHC Shows and also in a lot of the local open all breed shows.
I have got to admit the prices at the big shows are quite high and sometimes hard to justify. But I love to see where I stand and what my home trained Girls can do against the Big Boys.
I make my own show clothes, my Saddles do not have a ton of silver but are always clean and neat.
I hold my own in the placings and get a real sense of satisfaction when we do well.
Yes, the economy plays a big role in numbers being down. But I think and hope the associations can adjust and still offer something for everyone to enjoy and compete in fairly, no matter what the levels we are at.
I personally don't show because of the expense. I train my horses myself, but if I wanted to show I would want a professional to help us learn the ropes. Besides that there is the simple fact of how expensive it is to buy show clothes and tack. Not to mention the fee's and costs of the shows themselves.
I would say the economy has alot to do with it! For me personally it is not for me. I don't like juding events, there is always a bias it seems. I love to do timed events~play days, team roping and rodeos. Those for me, are what I love doing. Of course everyone is different and that is what makes the world go around. I also don't get all the fancy clothes and tack, not me at all. I think it is a great question. Great answers, enjoyed reading everyone's opinions!
The cost to competitors has increased to a point that it shuts out many potential participants. Lots of these fees are beyond what the average horse person can actually afford. Years ago, many of the positions at horse shows were interested volunteers. Often they have replaced them with paid helpers.
Breeders used to help simply to encourage participation.
Fees are unnecessarily high. For instance; If you want to overnight at a typical grounds, the fee is often under $15, the same stabling during a show is often over $100. They will tell you it has to do with insurance. I think many show committees have been sold a bill of goods concerning insurance.
If we hope to continue showing horses, the people putting the shows on will have to start cutting out the fat and cut fees to the bone.
I have a pasture full of quality horses but no longer show 'cause it just costs too much to justify.
I showed until I was 15 and witnessed a spoiled-rotten brat beat her horse about the head with a crop because he'd done something "wrong". Yet guess who won the class? This was at a barn where G. Morris trained.
Another time I was told I had to leave a class in which i was doing very well because I didn't have the right kind of jacket.
Pay hundreds of dollars for that? No thanks. Plus pay tens of thousands more for a horse who's beautiful and has the "right bloodlines" to win but is a neurotic psycho with serious genetic issues from inbreeding? No thanks. Then train the poor thing into the ground to make him/her conform to some standard of movement that may or may not suit his/her body and/or personality? No thanks.
I hope the wave of the future is about how well people as individuals work with their horse as an individual - freestyle dressage, natural horsemanship, ranch versatility, and certain trail classes.
My experience is that the smaller and more casual the show is, the happier everyone is. Just people getting together to enjoy their passion for horses, everyone proud of their own achievements and looking for where they want to go next in a supportive environment.
I have no problem with competition, but only when it brings out the best in a field, not when it's gone down the road so many breed shows have.
Great comments Ladies (and men if there was any?). I know why mention the guys (were 99.9%) women right? My biggest peeve (that I can think of right now)is grounds fees. I live within easy drive of most of the shows we attend and I dont need or want stabling (biosecurity). I am still charged a 'Haul in Fee' aka for the privilage of paying the show money. I have had my 'HIF' cost more than my classes! We have boycotted a few shows for that reason! I also want to note the poor quality of judging at breed shows for reining/cowhorse.
Cheers,
Adrienne.
I own a well-bred QH and ride with a nice trainer but I don't show much. Don't really see the point in it. The kind of stuff that matters to me isn't at a breed or even a discipline show, and I don't care for all the big money and stuff that seems to be part and parcel of the big shows.
Plus, the last show I rode at, this one guy rode his very nice horse into a seizure of some sort, and was constantly getting after him in a not-so-good way. I just don't like the drama and the rudeness and the attitude at shows.
Not that we're going to be showing for a while--she just turned up with arthritis in her hocks, despite very careful, light use.
Economy is one reason. For me it has become a rich mans sport and the clothing has nothing to do with Western. The cost of tack, clothing and the biggest reason is the judges. I have seen too many trainers calling the judges the night before or saying they took them out to supper last night. We did it to have fun with our friends and also loved it. Now I would not even consider doing it.
I am about to show again after 8 years of being in grad school. I showed on the ApHC circuit starting in 1991, and loved it. Prior to that, I was enjoying the open and 4H shows. I live in MA, and this past yr I went to a few regional shows with a friend who has been showing while I wasn't. Some things never change, but others have.
1. Numbers are definitely down, but not as much as other parts of the country (from what I can tell by observing entry numbers).
2. I think some of the judging is...questionable. Showing horses always has been political, but some of the classes I watched truly confused me and some other people on the rail. There were "WTF" moments.
3. I think the cost, like other people have said, HAS to be a factor. Custom clothing, custom tack, hauling multiple horses to win a high point all adds up FAST, not to mention trainers, trailers, trucks and fuel. AND all the entry fees, national point fees, stall fees, etc. But I am not blaming the regional clubs at all: I know they aren't making a ton of money. That said, SOMETHING needs to give, or the shows will become extinct. I also think some of the issue of ApHC shows are not relevant to this blog, they are an entirely different discussion!
Another factor for me is showing multiple horses. I am still trying to figure out what happened to the All-Around Awards, which used to be the "best" award given to the one horse/one rider high point. I wish the emphasis could be swung more toward all-around horses again.
My last comment (sorry I have so many, but this is an interesting topic) is about the pleasure horse industry itself. In 1999, I purchased a 4 yo ApHC mare in OH who had just placed at the World Show. I was very excited to get her home and show her...until we went to pick her up and she was dead lame. Being young and foolish, I brought the mare home (I should NOT have done so) and to make a long story short, she had a septic joint and was euthanized after hock surgery. I made mistakes obviously (like trusting this woman), but the "trainer" who sold her to me, along with her vet, refused to be honest with my vet(s) and with myself. That event soured me on pleasure horses for many years. Her greediness and complete lack of ethics removed any money I was going to spend in the industry. I know this story is similar to MANY, but that type of behavior is only one reason why the pleasure horse industry is criticized and why people leave it, and it's a shame. I really hope this time around, things will be different.
I don't show because it isn't fun. Lots of folks at the barn I board at show, some at circuit shows. It takes high powered, high priced horses to place. No thanks. I have watched several young women grow up at this barn, sell or not use the horses they loved because they didn't do well enough. No thanks. It would also mean a significant investment in a truck, trailer and new tack/clothes. No thanks. I don't need that pressure on any level. I will stay home, ride to suit my skill level, continue to enjoy my mare, and avoid all the pressure "to do better, to climb the ladder to success".
I listened to a conversation between two barn members a few years ago. It was about a show outside of their region. They spent a lot of money traveling south to this show. A LOT of money. With a good mare. Know why they didn't place? She had too much hair coat. *It was February here in the Northland*. She had been blanketed and under lights so *I* thought she was bare nekkid. Apparently I was mistaken. But down there it wasn't how the mare moved or the rider rode, it was .... gasp....the dreaded haircoat.
To me this just sets folks who don't win to erode their confidence in themselves...and I do no want that for me or mine.
I sold my horse in July/08. Mainly it was out of necessity as I am in the middle of grad school and very broke.
I am now sharing a huge TB gelding doing dressage as a friend bought him and just doesn't have the time to ride him enough to get him back into shape.
I have found that I DON'T miss the showing. I am shocked, but I don't miss the exhaustion, the stress, or juggling bills after filling the tank and paying all the fees!
What's more, I am enjoying not riding with pressure. If it's -30 with the windchill, I can have a day off. If I think we'll benefit from suppling work at the walk instead of a full drilling session, we can do it. It's a huge relief in many ways NOT to be worrying about having to get everything perfect for a show. Perhaps I felt more pressure to get every ride right because our climate means so few shows per year but I am enjoying just riding and spending time with a very sweet horse.
I am really reconsidering whether or not I want to spend the money on a show horse down the road...
Competing in barrel racing and pole bending at least gives you a chance at payback....not just worthless points. If Breed associations did jackpots for those classes they would have a better turn-out. People at barrel races are friendlier, cheer for each other and become friends over time. We all know it's fair because the clock doesn't have bias.
My 12 year old daughter shows in gaming events and some 4H shows. She really loves the gaming as it's her and the horse against the clock. We are members of a local riding club that did really well last year. The atmosphere at the shows is really great and we have a lot of fun.
I have horses that are a joy to ride but are not "well bred" including the Mexican Mustang she rides in gymkhanas. He's not flashy and is over at the knee but I would absolutely trust him with any child. The 4H shows have been a big disappointment as I am finding lots of bad sportmanship but she has decided to join again this year for the experience. I imagine that the economy is going to be a huge factor for most people with showing this year.
My daughter and I have done the Arab circuit(albeit in Jumpers) for the last 18 years. It's over now. Too much money for entries and travel. Course designers who "confer" with the pro's who are showing on course design. Yes that really happened this year in the $5000 Scottsdale Gambler's Choice. When I complained to the steward, I was told I had no proof and the protest was useless.
The nasty, hateful people who can't stand to lose on their overpriced, undertrained horses.
Even after 8 Scottsdale Championships, 2 National Championships, countless regional and show championships, not to mention competing at the highest level of USEF Jumper shows, such as the Winter circuit in Indio and winning, we still don't belong.
Talent isn't rewarded, money is.
Hence our National Champion and Res. National Champion will just have to keep on hauling my old butt up mountains. We just did the highest mountain in NM, Wheeler Peak, 13,800 feet for my 49th birthday.
I am bitter, I always thought it was about ability and hard work. Make no mistake it is all about the $$$$$$$.
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